Café con Tech

VIM, Typescript, Community and Accountability with Joe Previte

October 04, 2021 Matias Hernández / Joe Previte Season 3 Episode 12
Café con Tech
VIM, Typescript, Community and Accountability with Joe Previte
Show Notes Transcript

Welcome to a new episode. This week I had the opportunity to talk with Joe Previte a content creator, developer, and teacher.
Joe is the creator of the course VIM for VScode and several community focused places and services like:

  • His twitch stream
  • Joe's Jobs - A job board that has the best jobs in the product, engineering, OSS, and more. 
  • dip.chat - accountability groups for developers
  • Basics of TypeScript - this is a weekly Telegram newsletter, but will eventually be a TypeScript course

He also has some courses on egghead.io like "The Beginner's Guide to Figma".

During the episode, we dived into his history from a Spanish student to becoming an open-source engineer learning with freecodecamp 

Follow Joe on Twitter and check his incredible notes on his site.

Music Credits
Opening and Outro Music
by DanoSongs https://danosongs.com/
Background Music Music:
Nile's Blues by Kevin MacLeod
Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/4134-nile-s-blues
License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license


Auth0
Auth0 es una plataforma de autenticación y autorización lista para usar en tu app!

Cloundinary MDE
Energizing a diverse community of developers to share knowledge using media technology in web apps.

Escuela Frontend
Conviértete en un Frontend Dev Profesional Contenido de alta calidad para mejorar tu carrera!

Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/matiasfha)

Matias:

Welcome to a new episode of cafe con tech, the Spanish podcast. That for some reason is becoming an English conversation today with me, I have a Joe Previte a Developer. Teacher creator of a course that is called VIM for VSCode. We will dive into that in the next minutes. But first of all, welcome, Joe. Thank you for coming by to these show.

Joe:

Hey Mathias, everyone. Thanks so much for having me today. Super excited to be here. Especially as someone who kind of grew up studying Spanish. Super cool to see like tech podcasts that are in Spanish and, you know, excited to be here to, to talk in English today. Cause my Spanish is a little rough.

Matias:

Yeah, my English is not that good anyway, but First of all maybe Joe let's try to dive into your bill your kind of maybe present yourself to the audience too, to let them know you a little bit.

Joe:

Yeah, sure, definitely. I can, I can give a little, little background bio kind of thing. So for those who don't know, you know, as, as Mathias introduced to you, my name is Joe Previtt. I'm a developer based in the United States, specifically in Arizona and more specifically in Phoenix, Scottsdale. If you know it I've been a developer for a couple of years now. I got into the industry through free code camp. That's how I learned to code. You know, and I've worked at a couple of places. I used to work at Facebook as a developer advocate on the open source team. And then right now I work at a company called coder and I work as an open source type scripts.

Matias:

I really liked that role name, open source TypeScript engineer. What that involves, what is your actual work day?

Joe:

Yeah, it's, it's kinda funny. So, so technically speaking, when I joined the company, the, the role is called TypeScript engineer. You know, like that's what HR would say. But basically I work on an open source project for the company. I helped maintain it along with a couple other engineers and the project is called code server and it's basically vs. Code in your browser.

Matias:

That's amazing. Yeah, it's kind of a mind blowing. What, what are happening with the Javascript kind of scene in terms of browser capabilities? The other day, I saw that the next is running on the browser. Like with next live, VS code, just be able to rerun as an editor in the browser. Code spaces, the, all the other corners. So there is a lot of things happening in here, but I wonder what's the difference or what can you tell us difference between a engineer and an open source engineer, I guess, I guess that you have more involvement with the wider community.

Joe:

Yeah, no, that's, that's a great question. So, so basically, you know, I, I work for coder as an employee, you know, and, and and the project was started at. Years ago. And so the project is MIT licensed it's on Github. And so by open-source engineer, basically all of the work that I do is on GitHub. So, you know, average day is basically sign into slack, check my email, check, github notifications, respond to github discussions, respond, to github issues. And any time I submit PRS, it's all on GitHub to the, the opensource.

Matias:

So it's like your work is under the vigilant eyes of many, many people, at least more people than the, your own team, because.

Joe:

right. Exactly. Yeah. Any like, you know, like, like today I could send you a link to a PR that I'm working on right now and you could look at it. So yeah, it's kinda, it's kinda like the like build in public or learn in public movement where like everything. Because it's open-source or on GitHub it's public. So anyone can see it even, you know, outside of my employeer.

Matias:

That's that's nice in, in really different ways. But in in your opinion, what is, what you like about this whole process that you are in your work day? What is the advantage versus other, maybe other roles or other experiences?

Joe:

Yeah, I think, I think the advantage of working. In open source for a company, is, is all of your work is public. Right? So, you know, everything I can do everything I do at work, like, you know, during my nine to five, like I can link in like kind of like, like I can take it with me. Right? Like it's, it lives on with me. You know, even years after. You know, say if I were to move on from a different, to a different company from coder. But yeah, I think that's, that's kinda like the main advantage. Like your work is all public and it's on GitHub and it'll be there forever. Basically.

Matias:

Really, really nicely in the future. If you move out, you will have something to show and not only this idea of I did certain thing is this is the code prove that. So that's amazing. But coming back in the years, maybe you'll said that you started your developer career with freecodecamp and that is. Different in terms of some reason people tend to think that successful developers comes off, always comes from universities, background or bootcamps or that kind of things, but your history is a little bit different in that term. So how did you land into freecodecamp and why you moved from whatever you were doing before to be.

Joe:

Yeah, that's a good question. So yeah, I mean, if, if we go back a little bit and I can share a little of the story, basically you know, I, I did go to college and I, I did graduate. I studied. My degree is in general studies, but I, I studied languages like Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, and after college, I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do. I was thinking about going into foreign language education. So I thought, you know, it would be cool to teach Spanish at the college level and so, or, you know, Italian anything. And so I think. Applying to a master's program for Italian linguistics and literature. And so I was doing that and maybe about six months, maybe a year in. I guess this semester into it, I was just kind of thinking about the future and, you know, what's the job market look like for academia? What, what's it like trying to get a job as a, as a professor, as an adjunct professor. And, you know, I was kind of second guessing it, you know, my ability to be. able to support a family on a, on a professor salary, at least in the U S I don't know how it is elsewhere. And so, so basically I started looking elsewhere. I, you know, I'd known about coding. I looked into bootcamps, but most of them were kind of expensive and I didn't really want to take out any loans or have any debt. Cause I already had a little bit of student loan debt and I found free code camp and just kind of started plugging away and found the a hundred days of code challenge did that. And after about 30 days, I, I felt. And, you know, dropped out of my graduate program and got a job, like an internship and then a job and a job. And, you know, so that was like three years ago, four years ago. That was 20.

Matias:

Do you think that, that, that was kind of. Easy for you, just because you love this software crafting process or what were the hard points of learning to go in this way? We though that an actual quote, unquote plan of learning because freakout con is a learning plan, but it's not kind of official right.

Joe:

Right.

Matias:

What was the hardest.

Joe:

Yeah, that, I mean, obviously like leaving my master's program was a hard decision. But yeah, more specifically, you know, going the free code camp route versus I don't know, going back to school to get a computer science degree or going to a bootcamp, the hard part about the. Route with free code camp or like the self-teaching route is it's kind of lonely and like, you know, I didn't know anyone from college who studied computer science. I didn't know anyone from high school that studied computer science. So like, I don't know, like, you know, you talk about imposter syndrome and here I am like trying to teach myself With random resources on the internet. And like, you can't like my parents, you know, didn't really didn't fully understand. And so it's really hard. You, you kind of feel like you don't have anyone to talk to about it. And that's really what drew me to Twitter. And and I also found kind of like an accountability group, like a small community within the free code camp community called Ching U. And you know, that was really what, what helped me get through the hard parts.

Matias:

Yeah, community is kind of a staple part of the learning process. And it's something that you kind of work. Right now and through the sisters of freako com and the jobs and communities and all of that. You just mentioned Twitter. You got a job through.

Joe:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's funny. The first job that I got. You know, cause everyone talks like it's always, you're getting your first job when you're self-taught is probably the hardest thing. And like really, you know, I think for me it was a lot of like luck and privilege and other other factors that are kind of out of my control. But the first job that I got was through a slack community. There's like a slack community in Arizona called Well, there's one for Arizona WordPress, and there's another called yes. PHX, which is like the startup community in Phoenix. So I ended up finding a job through there. But there was a job that I did get off Twitter actually. And that was a couple of jobs back. It was for this agency called Egghead. And yeah, I mean, basically I was on Twitter one day, someone that I follow retweeted this job, and it was like echo buy-ins hiring software engineers. We do like react, react, native type scripts. And so I messaged, you know, I just sent a DM to the person who posted, who was Chris ball, who's the CTO. And we started talking and I interviewed and, you know, a couple months later they made an offer and I, I joined the.

Matias:

That's that's is really powerful. I mean, sometimes people tend to think about Twitter about like just chit posting or argue with. I being angry all the time.

Joe:

Yeah.

Matias:

tech community and Twitter is actually really welcoming and really open with a lot of drama, but really hoping to, to help. And I see that share on Twitter and also on your newsletter. There's a monthly newsletter. Alisa of who is hiring tweets. Right?

Joe:

Right. Yeah. And, and that's kind of what sparked that is like, You know, like Twitter's like the algorithm is so weird and unpredictable, you know, like if you and I were to compare Twitter feeds, like they'd be very vastly different. And sometimes jobs come across my Twitter feed and I'm like, oh, well, you know, what if say Mathias was looking for a job, but he didn't see these in his feed. There's no way for him to know. Right. Cause it's like, you can, you can try like doing the Twitter search and entering keywords, like hiring or like engineer, like posting, but. There's just millions, billions of tweets. It's so hard to find. So that's kind of what sparks the like monthly who's hiring thread. And then also, like you mentioned in the newsletter

Matias:

I really like that. It's really helpful. I know that there is. People looking for at least their first job or maybe change and that became really important through the pandemic 20, 20, 21. People want to work remotely in this developing. Going back to your job you work with TypeScript. Any reason that you learned into TypeScript was kind of a decision I want to learn TypeScript, or was just the tie that gets you from starting to develop something to.

Joe:

Yeah, so that, that's kind of a funny story too. So when I was at echo bind they had this benefit I'm forgetting the name now that I'm saying it, but basically it was kind of, I think it was called like investment time or something. And so you would get eight hours a week. To to do, to use this investment time. And so you could use it building tools for internal use. You could use it to like learn a new technology, et cetera, et cetera. And when I was there, I was like, I want to get really good at TypeScript. And I want to become like the in-house TypeScript expert, like the people, the person that people go to when they get stuck. And so. You know, I, I told my boss and I was kind of doing this publicly too on Twitter was like, you know, I'm going to do this ultra learning project for TypeScript. So I'm going to spend, you know, like three months learning TypeScript. And so I did that and I wrote a bunch of articles and made some videos and things like that. And then, you know, kind of fast forward after echo bind. I that's, when I went to Facebook, I was a developer. And I left there kind of at the, well, at the end of 2020 because I wanted to go remote and I found the job that I have now, because it was a listing as a TypeScript engineer. So kind of like all of that tied together, like all the TypeScript learning work in public, I had all of these articles. And so when I applied to. this job, I was like, here's a TypeScript page on my website with all these projects, I made all these articles I wrote. And I think that. Land the job.

Matias:

Yeah, for sure. I mean, Javascript is a hard thing when you become stuck and. Just show it that you have experienced with it. So it's kind of a natural to hire you in terms of, if I'm looking someone to nose as could really well, I mean, it's kind of the obvious path. And, but again, I, I, maybe I will repeat the question. Why TypeScript then

Joe:

Oh, right, right,

Matias:

there are people that love tight grip and there are people just hate play. Hate it. And. And there is a bunch in the middle. Like

Joe:

Yeah.

Matias:

We feel the benefits of using TypeScript, but at the same time we feel the pains of using TypeScript.

Joe:

Yeah. I mean, you know, I think I was, I was buying into the Kool-Aid a little bit back then, you know, everyone was like, oh, I love type. You know, I saw a lot of the, I love type scripts, kind of tweets and, and from people. And again, you know, coming from the self-taught background, like, I didn't know, like what types were, I didn't know the difference between like statically typed language and dynamically typed language. And so I was, you know, a little bit curious and at the agency type scraped was part of the default stack and the whole reason behind it was, you know it makes your code more. And the whole reason behind it was basically it gives you documentation. Cause he can look at the type definitions, things like that. It gives you structure. So it's like, oh, this function is supposed to accept only a string rather than like any type. And it gives you confidence, right? Because you can catch a lot of things like errors that might happen during your development cycle rather than, you know, in production or by a user. And so that's kind of like what drew me to it. Yeah. And a friend on Twitter, actually, like I had tweeted about learning TypeScript and he was like, Hey, if you want, like we can live stream and all all the TypeScript. And so he helped me refactor a code base from Javascript to type scripts. And that was kind of the tipping point. That's where I was like, okay, I get all the hype. This is a.

Matias:

Yeah. I know that you have a bunch of articles and resources in your site. So I will leave the link into the show notes and because you have. Couple of articles, like how TypeScript makes you a better devastated developer and also some books about TypeScript song, Kovac samples, that time Soner extension. And that is an extension that you created for Firefox sing Chrome. Right? Can you, can you maybe tell us about what is that.

Joe:

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So that's kind of it's funny. It feels like everything comes back to Twitter, honestly. But basically the story behind that. is I. Right. Exactly. Exactly. I was around that, around the same time with the TypeScript, like that's kind of when I was hearing about graph QL and oh, GraphQL is so cool. It's better than rest. You should try it. And I think I tweeted about like learning graph QL and somebody who I didn't follow responded to my tweet and was like, oh, you know if you want to learn about graph QL, happy to chat. Like shoot me a DM and we'll set up a call and I said, okay. And so it was this woman, Bonnie. And so I sent her a message and was like, Hey, are you free?

Like next Tuesday at like 5:

00 PM? And she's like, yeah. And I failed to account for the time zone or like, I, I I confused the times on that she was in. And so I missed the meeting by an hour. And I felt so bad and like, luckily she was still free and we chatted. But after that I was like, I don't want this to happen again. So I created a, an extension called times zoner, which basically it detects your time zone. You put in a date and a time, and then it creates a short link. And so then you send it to your friend, whoever, and you say, Hey, like let's

chat at 5:

00 PM Arizona time when they open that link, it automatically converts. The date and time to their local time zone.

Matias:

Nice that did SAB problem. And in these remote. Type of life, that there is some, many times on this difference. And, and, and also the countries changed through the year. That is just confusing. And it's a really simple tool. Like I like, I like it. I really like it. I will leave the link in the show notes to So you kind of summary, you learn it through free code camp. Then you start tweeting about what you were working and tweeted about. I'm learning TypeScript, I'm learning graphical, and now you're learning rust. If I follow your notes in your.

Joe:

Yeah, so, I mean, it's kind of on pause right now, but when I was like, right before this. When I was at Facebook, I was, I was doing a lot of stuff with Russ, trying to understand rust as a programming language, understand the community, understand the ecosystem. And so I was trying to do that as well, kind of in public And rest, I mean, you know, I, I built a couple small projects with Russ. It's a really fascinating language. It's fast. There's great documentation. That community is amazing. There's a lot you can do with rust. So. I would love to get back into it. But right now, you know, I don't have a specific need.

Matias:

And yeah. So that's one thing. And you mentioned a lot of communities and I want to dive into that, but I don't want to miss a hot topic.

Joe:

Okay.

Matias:

why VM, why you created a course about beam by the way, beam four BS code is the course that Joe created. This is basically a course that you drive inside BS code. This is not like videos and BDO and million videos. Just hands-on right.

Joe:

right. Yeah.

Matias:

Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. I mean, I mean, I mean, Tell us about BME four V four. Yes. Gov more than that. Why beam and why in Siberia schools? I mean, I'm a huge fan of beam, but in the console. So I kind of.

Joe:

yes. And I'm sure a lot of other people are when they see it. Yeah. So, so the history behind that is basically. You know, going back a little bit in the history. So the first editor that I used was sublime, I'm sure a lot of people have used sublime or they've heard of it, you know, it's pretty fast. And a lot of people still use it today and, you know, a, a couple of years, I can't even remember after, but someone was like, you should check out vs code. And I was like, okay. And so I did, and I switched from. And I used an extension called the sublime key bindings. So I was still using the sublime shortcuts. And one of my first jobs the guy like my boss really emphasized keyboard shortcuts, you know, like each week he'd be like, why are you so slow at the keyboard? And it was kind of annoying. But it actually helps a lot because it made me want to get better. So anyways, so I learned all the shortcuts. It was really like hooked on like sublime, keyboard, shortcuts, and key by needs within vs code. And then, you know, I heard people saying, oh, you should use them inside vs code. You can use the VIM key bindings. So it's like the power of him mixed with the power vs code. And I was like, okay, sounds cool. Sounds hard. And so, you know, I, I committed to doing it and like switching over to the VIM key by needs and it took me like a month or two to get comfortable. And so basically, you know, when I was thinking about courses, I wanted to create, I was thinking what's something that I know well enough to teach other people. And that was also me trying to get into India. And like more of like independent course creation. And So I chose them for vs code. And the other reason I chose it was because I really wanted to explore this idea of like more hands-on courses. So rather than like sitting back and like watching a video on like two X or something, and then doing things I wanted to see, can I create a course that teaches you through hands on exercises and like, why not do it within Vue? Like kind of like, and I wanted to do it within vs code. Cause a lot of things happen like in the browser. But then you go to your editor. So I wanted to keep the developer within the same environment that they use day to day. So that was kind of like that it was kind of. like the impetus behind it.

Matias:

I really like beam actually near beam and also like really a little like BS coat, because there is so much you can do with BS code and with beam also, but it's kind of sometimes hard because for example, the. Plugin that you can add to not that stoop that is Emacs, that is Maggie town,

Joe:

Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Different worlds.

Matias:

of that different world. And you, you, you, where you went on that too, where with these, all of these note-taking process I guess right. You dive into, into iMacs for org Rome, or I'm coming.

Joe:

no, no, no. Yeah, yeah. I'm not using or room I'm using org mode though. And that's just kind of like a, like never satisfied, like me never being satisfied with like a note taking app, you know? And like one of my coworkers was like, oh yeah, use Emacs. Right. And he was like, he uses it for like time tracking. So instead of like a toggle, he uses it for note taking. So instead of like a notion or a roam or whatever like he uses it for his editor. Like he uses it for a calendar. Like you can do so much in Emacs. It's like, I think some people call it like an operating system and, and like, you can also do like space repetition. There's like plugins and stuff or something. And so I was like, okay, I'll give it a. Especially cause, you know, I can use like, like evil mode basically, which is like the VIM key by needs, which I already know. And so I've been trying that out for like the last month or so as like my to-do list and note taking app is like just using doom, Emacs.

Matias:

Yeah, it's another amazing tool. But back to being progressed, via scope, how that was received by the community, because I know that people is still sometimes annoyed by beam because it's quite different. Actually it's really easy after you make your mind by it's quite different by the use between keyboard shortcuts or, or comments, or I don't show how beam called them actions and movements versus just clicking around and control tab or, or CMT top and all of that. So how people receive that they, this.

Joe:

Yeah. I think. You know, so, so I launched the course back in September of last. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, it's, it's all relative, right. So, you know, when I launched it that weekend, I think I, you know, it was listed at like $10 for the course. And I think I sold like a hundred over a hundred copies. And so that was, that was for me, that was like, okay, this is awesome. Like people, this is something people want, you know, they're willing to pay for. They see the value in it. They want to learn it. And so since then, like I've done some revisions and modified things and whatnot. And like in lifetime sales, I think it's brought in almost $9,000. So like, you know, I think I've sold like almost 700 copies, so it's all relative. Right. You know, it's. It feels good for me as far as like my first course, but you know, it's not on the level of like some people where they sell like thousands or like tens of thousands. So it's all relative, you

Matias:

Yeah. I mean, success is just for the creator. I mean, it's, if you feel that it's, if a product is, and then it is, you cannot, you cannot compare metric when anyone else is kind

Joe:

Yeah.

Matias:

and this product or this ideas. Broke me to another topic that you were really into the, into the community in particular, the two week product initiative. I recall I receive any buy for that twice and it

Joe:

Oh yeah.

Matias:

Yeah. And I never had the, I don't know, mental power in one location. And on the second occasion, they didn't have the time actually, because I was our committed to actually do it. But it's a really nice. To create community and to create a continuity and also to actually create something. So can you maybe speak about two week productivity?

Joe:

Yeah. So again, that, that kind of stems from like me wanting to get into indie hacking and entrepreneurship. Right. Cause like, as developers, like coding does feel like a superpower and there's so much you can do. Right. And like we can start our own businesses and yeah. I'm super inspired by the indie hackers community. And I've been following that for a couple of years and yeah, I mean, you know, I think last year I saw a lot of people like launching eBooks and courses and a friend of mine will Johnson, who, you know, a mutual friend, I guess rather and someone from the community who I respect. Yeah. He, you know, him and I had been talking in Twitter dams for a while about like launching eBooks or launching courses and, you know, Pushed me, like we both saw a tweet from Daniel Vasella I believe is how you say his last name. He yeah, he was basically like here, if you want to get into info products basically follow these three steps, come up with an idea, something you can teach it and you know, well, so for me that was VIM key bindings in, in vs. Code. Second thing is box it's two weeks, you know, tell yourself I'm going to make something that. Creates value within two weeks and see if I can do it. And then third is like, sell it and see if people buy it. And obviously if it's horrible, they won't buy it. Or if it's really bad, they'll buy it and ask for a refund. Right. But at least you get your foot in the door and you get that experience instead of like dragging on and saying like, oh, you know, in six months I'm going to do this. And then it drags on for months because of scope creep. And so, yeah, I mean, I, I, I was like, I don't want to do this alone. I'm sure there's other people want. So I like created a little discord and we had a couple of groups doing it of like, you know, eight to 10 people. And I think we did two or three rounds. And yeah you know, a handful of people launched products from that.

Matias:

I really like the idea of more like the product itself. I mean, the, the accountability, and just, you said as a developer, we have this. The power of creating things from the thinner, but at the same time, if we have that power and there are so many developers, then we have so many products and that is not true because most of us just don't create things. And from becoming a consumer to become from being a consumer and becoming a creator. It's a harder step. It's actually really hard, but if you have a community around and people that can mentor you that it's easier. So how or simple, I think.

Joe:

Yeah, no, I would totally agree. I mean, well, you know, it, it kind of, at least for me, it goes back to like trying my, trying to teach myself how to. Right. And like, I would get stuck in, like, you don't know how to ask for help. Right. And so I think. having this kind of like accountability group and like just bouncing ideas off people who are at a similar stage to you, right. Like, sure. There might be one person with a little bit more experienced than it might be one person with less experience, but you're all kind of learning together. And, and, and like, that's what I'm trying to do right now is. Kind of help people find these accountability groups. And so I've, I've started a new project right now. It's called dip.chat is the website. But Yeah, it's, it's basically, it came from that idea. Like I realized, I like finding people who are, have similar interests, so like launching a two week product putting them together and then like finding a way for us to hold each other accountable. And so I have a few groups. In less than two weeks. And one of them is actually like this one month challenge where it's like, try and launch a product or a side project in a month. And so there's like six spots. And so, so we'll see what.

Matias:

Yeah, I'm taking a look at the the chat and it looks like. I mean, you have different kind of tiers there or groups, the creators, you have hunters one month challenge and builders. And with this penalty, I really liked the idea of penalty because even if you are in a continuity group the only responsibility you have is just showing up and actually we are in different. The best places in the world. And I can just don't show up and nothing will happen. would just, I would just fail and okay. No borders, but at least a penalty of $5. It's also not that much that it will hurt my economy, but it's, but at the same time, it's something I will lose because I was, I dunno, checking Twitter instead of actually doing the job. So.

Joe:

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. I mean like, Yeah, cause I mean, it's, it's so easy to say who's interested in building a product, you know, you tweet that out and you get like a hundred people who say yes. Okay. And then you create a discord and then, you know, you say, okay, we're going to start tomorrow and you start in like five, you know, two people show up in post. Right. So it's like you know, I think the idea of these kind of like with the penalty and things like that. Yeah. You have a baseline, right? It's like, all you gotta do is post once a day. And there's no, like, it doesn't say you have to do two hours a day. It doesn't say it has to be a long update. Like, it's, it's a very simple thing to follow. It's just like one update. And you know, if you're like too busy, one day, just say, I'm too busy and that's your update. Right. But again, it's just going back to like establishing guidelines and having expectations for everyone in the group. And everyone agreed. These are what we're gonna do.

Matias:

Yeah, I really liked that. And related with this. Do you have something that you label as a spices heartaches? And there are two hotels that are related with this one is that everyone should have a blog and or everyone should have a Cypress Cyprus or hobby or something else of the work. But in terms of Cyprus, how you differentiate your work, that is good. Versus your site pro your hobby. That is actually coding too. Isn't that kind of in the same area and maybe that discourage people to actually do.

Joe:

Yeah. I think it depends, you know, like I think there are a lot of people there, like there's people who say like the only code I'm going to write is at work and that's totally fine. Right. Like you do you and then there's some people who like coding or like Yeah. Like, you know, it's okay. If my side project is coding related. I think for me, Like I was talking to a coworker actually about this the other day. And like one thing that helps me with work-life balance, like basically like signing off for my like coding job like nine to five is having a side project because, you know, then it's like, okay, like, you know, I need to do everything that I can for my work job. And, and get it done into my nine to five and like, make sure that. Doing everything I can to support the company and support the thing that we're working on. And then, you know, at five or, or whenever, like on the weekend, like kind of like shutting that off so that I'm not overworking. And then putting that energy that I have into like a side project or a hobby at least, you know, that's, that's worked for me so far.

Matias:

Yeah. Yeah. And what about the personal of log? There is another topic that most of the guests of this podcast have something to say in terms of what to ride when not to ride. If it's something kind of hard, easy, professional, not professional. And you said that everyone should have a personal blog. Why everyone?

Joe:

Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, there's so many great things about having a blog. You know, w w when you have a blog you're forced to write on, you're forced to write. You're forced to think. And when you're forced to think you're forced to articulate something in a way that's going to be understood, not only by you, but by other people. And so, like, I don't know, like a blog for me and why I think people should have it is, it's just a great way to either write down something that you learned, write down something that you're reflecting on and to kind of like process it or write down something that you. I don't want to forget how to do you know, or something you're excited about. I mean, you know, so like like I have a blog post or like how to pronounce my last name. Right. Because there's, you know, you look at it and there's so many, I mean, it's not as complicated as other people's, but I had been asked it enough times that I put up a blog post. I put up an audio file with pronunciation and like, now I can just send that to people. And that's like such a simple thing. Yeah. you can put on your blog. If you have one.

Matias:

Yeah. And, and related with what developers love about talking about, eh, when you said that. What is your blog tech stack?

Joe:

Oh.

Matias:

because, you know, as a developer, our only concern is about having all of the the new things in our blocks. Like rebuild, rebuild, rebuild.

Joe:

Exactly. Yeah. It's like the the classic developer. Oh, I'm going to launch a blog this month, three months later. Oh, I'm not sure what tech stack I should use, you know, and it's like, it's hard, like totally happened to me. And it's, you know, I'm always like, oh, maybe I should switch up the tech stack, but I'm glad that I stuck with it. I it's basically, it's a hosted on Netlify. I, I bought the domain off Google domains. And then it's a Gatsby site Gatsby V2. I tried to migrate to V3 and ran into issues. And so I've just given up and it's just on Gatsby too.

Matias:

I did the same. It just, just because I wa I wanted to have this new image blogging the, and everything blows up and I didn't have the time to just fix it and then continue with it. Yeah. It's a steal there. Like the content is still there. It doesn't matter what, where you write. And the lesson spicy, or think that I really love is that thing that you just mentioned, everyone should learn to code. And now it's kind of a hot topic more because of give him a copilot, like developers are, life is doomed. And also you're saying everyone should learn to code. And so why everyone should learn to code in Europe.

Joe:

Yeah. I think. The reason that I think everyone should learn to code is because of the way that it forces you to think, right? Like if you and I decide, Hey, we're going to build this product together. You have to really break it down. And so like, just from trying to build side projects, try, you know, writing code and solving problems at work, like it really forces you to break things down. So if you're fixing. You have to learn about debugging and investigation and analysis and eliminating factors that might be affecting the book. You know, if you're trying to build a big feature, you have to break it down into steps. Okay. First I need to do X. Then I need to do Y then I can do Z testing, right? Like how can you be certain. You know, the program that you wrote is going to do what you said that it was going to do. Right. And so it, it just forces you to think about a lot of things. And I think that, that those thinking patterns that you learn from programming can be applied to the real world. And I think it would just make everyone kind of like, it would enhance their thinking skills, right? Like I only see a benefit to that.

Matias:

I mean too. I think that as the century goes into the future and technology is becoming more important in our lives. Pandemic is an example of that. Understand what is happening at least in your brain. Like maybe re remove that annoying paywall modal on your screen. And that can be useful in just not only mental malls. There's also usability and all of that. And Joe, we are almost at the end of this episode, but I want to ask you about anything you want to recommend to the audience, something that you like to do like to read, like to watch, like you listen to. Whatever, whatever the sum your mind.

Joe:

oh Yeah. definitely. Yeah, I would say listening to Y. You know, if you're interested in indie hacking or entrepreneurship, I would definitely recommend the indie hackers podcast. You know, I've, I've been kind of going through the backlog for the last year or so. And the, in the interviewer Cortland, he's, you know, probably one of the best interviewers I've ever listened to. You know, and he's a developer and entrepreneur all of the above and he brings on a lot of really interesting guests. So that would, that would be something I would listen to. Trying to think what other recommendations I might have. I think, I think I'll stick with that one. I think that's pro that's probably the big one you know, and then learning in public and making friends on Twitter. There's a lot of doors can, can open up and present themselves to you just from engaging with other people.

Matias:

Yeah. This in particular, this episode came from Twitter. So

Joe:

There you. go.

Matias:

Social networks a little two more points. And you said, this is a weird hobby hobby, Hobbit. This is a weird hobby, but I know things to wear, but you are intimidation, right?

Joe:

Yes.

Matias:

How that helped you with. Develop beer war life. Like obviously it enhance your life as all as whole, but how do you can relate your mediation practice with your developer?

Joe:

Yeah, that's a really good question. I would say the biggest one that I've learned from meditation is mindfulness. And so just. For example, like when I'm working on code and something doesn't work, you know, it's very easy to get up, to get caught up in your emotions, like frustration or anger, you know, or, or like feeling helpless or loss. And so I think for, for meditation, it's really, it's like a, it's a reminder to come back to the present moment and realize, okay, you know, let's stop for a second. Recognizing, what are the emotions that I'm processing or feeling right now. And then recognizing that they're just emotions and emotions are fleeting, right? They come and go, one moment. We could be happy the next week could be sad. And so just, I think that that's probably the biggest way that it affects my developer workflow is, is, is being mindful. And stepping back from what I'm doing.

Matias:

An interesting point. So developer you encounter these dead ends really often. And so being able to handle that is really important. And what is actually a weird hobby. You like to continue to Google maps.

Joe:

oh yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like, I don't know why, like for me, for me, like I think about, Okay. if I'm a small business owner, like if I own a restaurant, right. A lot of business comes based on reviews and recommendations. So for instance, like let's say my wife and I are looking at a restaurant and we're like, oh, should we eat there? If it has like three or two star reviews, we're probably not going to eat there. Early, you know, we're we're unless, you know, we have to, for example, and. I see contributing to Google maps as like a small way to like give back like helping the small businesses. Google has kind of like gamified it too. So you get like points and badges and awards and all that, and you can see how many views are on your photos. It's just kind of a silly thing that I do for fun.

Matias:

Is this like I already called Foursquare. I think what's the name of an obligation from, I dunno, five years ago, maybe

Joe:

Yeah,

Matias:

it's got kind of the same idea that you talk geo-locate tag places you visit.

Joe:

yes. It's yeah, it's kinda similar. So like, like I have an Android phone and so after I go to a place, you know, it'll be like, Hey Joe, like, how was that Mexican restaurant? You went to you're in the top 10% of reviewers for Mexican restaurants or something like that. And so then, you know, I'll go on, leave a review.

Matias:

Nice Sarah. It's a really kind of effort, a little effort and a big help to the community. So, I mean, they users, everyone take a look at Google results and Google comments and opinions. And so it's important. Thank you. Yo, we are. And at the end of this episode was a really fun conversation. So this is the last minutes for you. If you have anything to share or say before,

Joe:

cool. Yeah, no, I just want to say thank you Mathias and thank you everyone who listened in you know, if there's anything I can do to help my DMS are open on Twitter. So feel free to shoot me in that.

Matias:

Yeah. And all of the links, Twitter profiles side, and all of the side projects that you have will be available in the shown. And so check it out after you. Stop listening to these episodes. So have a nice week, Joe. Thank you for coming here. And I got you in the next week.

Joe:

sounds good. Thanks Mathias.